“Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that counts cannot necessarily be counted.” Albert Einstein

Sunday, February 7, 2010

Required comment for 2/15--due BEFORE class. Sign your full name.


On College Campuses, a Shortage of Men - NYTimes.com

Consider these quotes from the linked article:

"Women have represented about 57 percent of enrollments at American colleges since at least 2000, according to a recent report by the American Council on Education. Researchers there cite several reasons: women tend to have higher grades; men tend to drop out in disproportionate numbers; and female enrollment skews higher among older students, low-income students, and black and Hispanic students."

“On college campuses where there are far more women than men, men have all the power to control the intensity of sexual and romantic relationships,” Kathleen A. Bogle, a sociologist at La Salle University in Philadelphia, wrote in an e-mail message. Her book, “Hooking Up: Sex, Dating, and Relationships on Campus,” was published in 2008.

“Women do not want to get left out in the cold, so they are competing for men on men’s terms,” she wrote. “This results in more casual hook-up encounters that do not end up leading to more serious romantic relationships. Since college women say they generally want ‘something more’ than just a casual hook-up, women end up losing out.”

W. Keith Campbell, a psychology professor at the University of Georgia, which is 57 percent female, put it this way: “When men have the social power, they create a man’s ideal of relationships,” he said. Translation: more partners, more sex. Commitment? A good first step would be his returning a woman’s Facebook message.

Women on gender-imbalanced campuses are paying a social price for success and, to a degree, are being victimized by men precisely because they have outperformed them, Professor Campbell said.

You may choose to address these questions in your comment:

Does it feel like there's a similar ratio of women to men on WIU's campus as there are on the campuses mentioned in the article?

How does the ratio of more women then men effect patterns of dating and hooking up?

On campuses where's there's 60% women, should admissions officials try to achieve a 50-50 balance by refusing some women who are more academically qualified in order to admit more men, even though they might be less qualified?

46 comments:

  1. To answer question one:
    I feel that there are more women than men on this campus. Just walking from Higgins to the Union I feel that I see more girls around and I like that.
    Question two:
    Having more women to choose from means that I can take a girl on a date and if that doesn't work out, then it is not a big deal. There's plenty of fish in the sea around here, so I'm not getting too serious. Nothing wrong with keeping it casual.
    Three:
    No, I personally like that there's a majority of females here at WIU. Though some may want a 50-50 balance, I believe that having more women isn't a problem and it wouldn't be fair to refuse highly qualified
    women.

    Andrew Schaad

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  2. At first i wasn't sure if i agreed with this article, but then as i continued to read and think of how the atmosphere is here when i go out with my friends, i'm starting to think it is kind of true. My friends and i always say "where are all the good guys?". What happened to the saying "You find your husband in college?". Maybe when my parents went to college that was the case, but definitely not anymore.
    In this article they did make a good point by saying that at this University they didn't offer many "male dominant" majors, and here at Western we have a pretty big Law Enforcement program, which is predominately males. Even with having this major at WIU i still feel like when you go to bars or parties, there does always seem to be more girls there.
    I also had a lot of guy friends in high school,more than i had girl friends, but here at college i have only a few.


    Emily Eyler

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  3. Me being the science minded individual I am, I actually looked up the percentage of females at WIU, it's 54%. And I'm not entirely surprised. And being married before I came to college, I don't really have so much of a personal experience with the dating scene here on campus. However, the ideas presented in the article do disturb me somewhat. The idea that men would feel less obligated to continue seeing a certain woman, just on the premise that there's others out there, is a bit insulting I'd think. Are they looking for that love-at-first-sight thing? Even if there's 100 women for just 1 man, I would personally believe that one guy should spend more than one date with a woman before deciding she's 'not the one' for him. The women at the very least deserve more than that. While I understand the importance of first impressions, those first impressions are often very skewed perceptions of a person. They're nervous, probably behaving outside their personal norms, just to get your attention. Take the time to get to know someone before tossing them aside and moving on to the next. At least...unless that person is just unbelievably annoying in some way to you. When I was dating, I took each date as the possibility of the beginning of something more than just a date. Unless I despised the person I'd always give them at least a 2nd date just to see if maybe there was something I had missed the first time around. Casual meetings didn't exist for me, the other person involved deserved better than that, at least in my eyes they did. Some of them were yes, just wanting that casual one-night chance. When it happened, I would indeed feel a little used, degraded. They saw me as nothing more than just a chance to have some fun for a night. As for the question regarding universities striving more for a balance between the genders I do think that's a mistake on many levels. Imagine you're the bright, talented and gifted woman applying for a college. You get turned down. Were you not good enough? It was only a small college, if you couldn't get accepted there, why even try for a larger university? Then there is the lawsuit issue of discrimination based on gender, but that's beside the point anyway. The problem lies not with the colleges, or the students attending them, but with society as a whole. Males being expected to go join the military or get into a trade profession, while women are expected to go into a 'softer' field that would require a college education. It's just a difference in the standards held for each gender. And while that trend is very gradually shifting to something more resembling 'equal', it's still a long way off before it will reach that magic 50/50 split.

    Benjamin Barnes

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  4. I have to agree with emily, there is a huge male dominant major here law enforcement. For guys it is probably a good thing that its a higher percent of girls, but honestly it isnt that much of a big percent difference. I have noticed though that a lot of my classes are mostly girls, and finding a guy at college? Yeah there are a lot more guys here than at the town I came from of 1100 people, but still no matter how many there are, they are all always the same :)

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  5. for question one there is definitely more woman than men at WIU. I don't mind it all, i am perfectly fine spending the night hanging out with girls, guys, or a mix I am pretty easy-going. Hooking up is quite frequent here you see every weekend. Especially with freshman just coming into college wanting to get that college sexual experience. I feel it has less to do with male dating influence, and more college atmosphere. I don't believe in any equality in admission it should be purely merit base. That only the best get regardless of gender or even race.

    Joey Guikema

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  6. I agree with Shawna. But I would have to say that in reality men do like to be around plenty of girls. Schools such as Lasalle University and others have more women than men. There are more wmomen than men in school because some men don't believe that college is right for them and they believe that the work field is the place to make money. But by there being less males in college and more women, the men tha are there have a better chance to get a girl or be with one because some women may throw themselves on men. Like in the article, some college men have at least 5-6 women to one man. And it shouldn't have to be like that at all because women should have respect for themselves. Some women do at least. But I can't say how people react or feel about the situation because people are going to do what they want to regardless of who tells them otherwise.

    Nyles Wortham

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  7. I would have to say that I don't think there are more women than men at western. If there is, it can't be a huge difference. I do agree that if there area lot more women than men it would hurt the women's datign scene. Men do want lots of partners and no commitment. And by having plenty of girls around, it is easily attainable. However I don't think that the administration should deny women just to even the ratio out. If women were truly concerned about the dating scene then maybe they shouldn't have applied to the school.
    -Bailey Strand

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  8. There are certainly more woman then men. Everywhere I walk around WIU I see so many girls and less men. Which is great for guys and not so great for girls. Guys have more choices and room to be picky. It doesn't bother me that much that there are more girls, I mean more guys would always be better though.I don't think they should refuse people but it would be nice if more guys would come to WIU or it would equally balance out. So us girls have tons more options.

    -Alex Figura

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  9. I agree and disagree with this article. I do think that there are more girls then guys on college campuses. I have also witnesses girls asking where are all the guys at.I disagree with what this article says girls are doing. Just because there is a limited number of guys on campus dosent mean you should hook up with any guy hoping they will become your boyfreind. Weather there are 50 or 100 guys available they are all the same...they want sex. So giving it to them just becasue there a limit amount of them seems like a poor excuse to me. Also, girls shouldnt settle for whats available at the moment and what around on campus. ALtough, theres not be many guys on campus theres alot of guys out in the world. I do not think colleges should deny girls to make the ratio more equal. Everyone works hard to get in college and they should be accepted into college no matter there gender. The main purpose of college is to get a degree not find a husband or wife. Its just an extra benifit if you find the right person while your getting a degree.

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  10. I would have to say that I think it is about 50-50 at WIU. I don't think there is a big difference between men and women. I do believe that if there are more women then men on the campus, the men do have to upper hand in relationships because they have more people to pick from. I don't think that women would do anything to get a boyfriend either. I think women can stand on their own just fine. So I don't believe women just go around hooking up in hopes to find a boyfriend like the article said they do. But I do agree that men get to have a one up on the women. I also dont think that colleges should deny women into school just to make it equal number of men to women. I think that everyone should have an equal chance of getting in.

    Amanda DeBates

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  11. I feel like the ratio here at WIU is pretty 50/50. Or at least I don't notice if there is more of one gender than the other.

    I think that the more men or women will not have any effect on dating or relationships. Guys are guys, they will continue to treat girls as they wish and women will put up with it. A one night stand can't be blamed on a lower ratio of men.


    On campus' everyone should be treated equally no matter what their gender or race is, so the 50/50 ratio again shouldn't be forced. It would be really unfair to women to be denied at a college because of this fact.

    Kayla O'Neill

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  12. I previously attended a small private college where the men out numbered the women 3 to 1, and we would joke about how finding a date was like shooting fish in a barrel. I think that having an imbalance in gender does sway the sexual politics, and it should solidify women to stick together, and not slither just to hook up. Most of my classes are primarliy female dominant. I have seen girls fight over the same guy (one that is usually not worth the effort), I mean, we all want to be chosen. We all want to be seen as desirable. I don't think this phenomena is limited to college campuses, I see in in 'real life' too. A hook up, a text, and then some sort of rejection or quasi-relationship. I just encourage young women to be confident in themselves, don't settle and do not define yourself by the man you are with. You don't have to have male attention to prove that you are attractive, but it is nice :) There is a difference between being alone and lonely. It still bothers me when I see girls choose men over their women friends. I don't have a problem with casual relationships, as long as you BOTH know you are in one. Like in the book/movie "He's just not that into you", there are a lot of ways to get rejected. I think that is why texting is so popular, because it is not face to face, and is you don't get a response, you can pretend that the recipient did not get it. As far as trying to have a 50/50 balance...I don't think it is that important. I would hate to see a qualified young lady passed over because another applicant doesn't have ovaries.

    Amy Caldwell

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  13. On Western's campus I feel like there are a greater amount of girls to guys. As for dating and hooking up, I don't feel that having more girls on campus means that more men and women will start hooking up. Now what might be being affected is competitions for a certain persons affections. Since there is a greater number of women than guys do girls feel like they have to compete more? That would be interesting to see. As for the denying women acceptance to a university thats wrong, people need to learn they have to earn acceptance to universities and right now women are "beating" men. So if men want to get a higher education they should work just as hard as men to get into college.


    Joe Womack

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  14. I have to agree there are more women then men, in way for me anyway its a compatition to see what one you can "bag and tag" so many females walking around want attention and with less males around we have to try harder to impress. But i have to dissagree with a comment saying "freshman just coming into college wanting to get that college sexual experience" I am a freshmen and I know several girls that have not gone around hooking up with guys for the fun of it. althought being a freshmen we are new to the things college has to offer I think that some freshmen are not as "wild" as we are said to be.

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  15. I disagree with the article because i dont like hanging out with a lot of females because they keep up to much drama. I feel like guys are more sufficient to hang around because you get to hang out without getting into a lot of mess.

    -Kendra Owens

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  16. The journalist who wrote this article in the NYTImes takes her own particular "bent" on the piece. You are correct to point out that not everyone believes the "college experience" means hooking up. People want different things from college.

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  17. Continued....The ratio shouldnt matter. there would be no diversity if everything was equal and/or the same. people will hang with who they please, regardless of anything else.

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  18. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  19. being from the east coast, i have a lot of friends that attend universities out on the eastern seaboard, many of whom are women. I have never once heard one of then tell me,dam there is such a shortage of men in this school. In terms of ratios were talking max a +10% ratio, meaning even in a massive college like say Michigan state with 50,000 students the ratio of men to women is say 20000 to 30000 leaving only a shortage of 10000 men, and even then that would not put your college having say 5 women to every one man. As for going out to the bar with all women, thats the fault of whoever organized the night out. it takes effort to get people together to go out, and if you want a good ratio you have to work for it. not just show up at some bar expecting there to be some hot guys there. regarding our campus, there are more women then men, but having a lot of women is not a problem. its an opportunity, in many cases the men congregate 10 or 20 at one party or in one place. many times there will be one or two girls at these parties. i can not speak to the bars, being myself only 20 and not frequenting any macomb bars, but i can tell you that many times i will go to a party and sit there and wonder as why its such a sausage fest when there are more women than men on campus.

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  20. There are more women at WIU. Walking form class to Higgins I see a lot more girls than guys. If I was a guy then I would like this however being a straight girl it makes it harder. This article is right, most guys do not try to I guess you could say dress up and look nice just to go out. While the girls are taking showers, doing their hair (takes forever!) and putting on their makeup just to go out and see a bunch of girls…how does that make sense. I’m sure the men are loving the fact that women are out numbering them, and I can’t blame them, if men out numbered girls that would be pretty sweet.
    -Kara Burroughs

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  21. I agree with a lot of people that there are more women here on Campus at WIU. However, a lot of guys that do go here are always out for the "hook up" Me and my friends always would say there are no good guys here at western. There is always one type and then another type. I feel that whenever I go out there are definately more girls than guys. It suprises me too since Law Enforcement is a huge major here that attracts men.

    Jennifer Berg

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  22. To be honest I have never really thought about if there is more men then women her at WIU, but now that i think about walking to and from class I realize just how true this article is. There is alot more men then there is women here at western. Personally as a guy I like there are more women then men here at western. And its great being able to hang out with a girl and whether or not it works out I know that there are alot of fish in the sea and its not the end of the world. To answer the last question i definatly feel like they should not deny girls that are more qualified then then the guys that applied to attend Western just so they can make the ratio 50 50. Also that would be fair to the university also because how Western becomes more prestiges is by having there graduates with higher GPAs and allowing people that are less qualified would hurt the unversity. But as a guy i definatly do not find that having a higher percentage of girls on campus then guys a real problem.

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  23. I think that there are more women than men on this campus. Just in my classes, there are always more girls than guys. I think that this effects dating and hookups because since there are less guys to choose from, it is more likely that he is already in a relationship or talking to someone. Also, it could be that someone you know has already dated a guy that you're interested in so it would be kind of awkward for you to start dating them. And I don't think schools should start refusing women of there education because that would not be right. Everyone should have a right to their education so it should be up to a man to determine whether he wants to go to college or not.
    -Toykia Meeks

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  24. I think WIU has a pretty close ratio, but sometimes it seems like there are always more girls around then guys. I agree that this is a problem for the dating scene, and that this gives men the right to be picky. However, i don't think it's good that men have all the power to control the intensity of the relationship. A girl should not be OK with her boyfriend cheating just because she doesn't want to left out. However, i don't think it's fair for colleges to start refusing women just because of the ratio difference. The more qualified person should be accepted.

    -alexa arent

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  25. i think that they are more woman on campus then men. this gives man the option of dating different girls on campus. or hooking up with girls on campus. since their less guys woman dont have a wide selection of who they can date. as far a realtionship wise the boyfriend and girlfriend should have equal power. the higher percentage of woman can temptmen to cheat. i agree with Toykia that no woman shoould be denied of their education.- altagrace jean francois

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  26. Just based on my day-to-day experiences, I would have thought that the percentage of men and women on WIU's campus was probably pretty even. I saw in a post above that the actual percentages are 54% women, and thus, 46% men. While this is not a huge difference, it is still a difference. To agree with the article, I think that this sort of statistic ultimately gives the men on campuses such as this around the country more confidence. They know that the odds are in their favor, and because of this, know that they don't necessarily need to try as hard to get a girl. In the first quote mentioned above, it described how women have represented 57% of enrollment in American colleges since at least 2000. In my opinion, this stat was not surprising at all. In today's day and age, I think that many men are choosing to either enter the work force directly out of high school or attend a trade school. I would assume that trades schools have a much higher percentage of men than women. Often times, you can graduate from a trade school in less time than a traditional university or college and make just as much if not more money. In the end, I think that this sort of thing is appealing and may be one of the causes of the declining number of males in universities around the country.

    -Chad Altfillish.

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  27. What happened to going to college for an education? This article, in a way, demeans women by suggesting the view of going to college to find a husband rather than enriching one's life. Admissions officials should keep doing what they're doing and admit only those that qualify academically for a higher education, rather than attempting to reach a 50/50 balance. Also, the article mentions nothing of same-sex relationships. This could be an important factor since I have way more lesbian friends on campus than gay ones.
    I thought it was rather backwards that the author stated that "women end up losing out" because college women want something more than a casual hookup. I say, good for them! It's a strong trait to keep one's dignity rather than degrade one's self just for a potential relationship.

    -Emily Janas

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  28. I agree with many of the above comments and I do agree that there are more women than men on this campus. My friends also say where are the good guys at? We are not looking for guys but good ones. Many of the guys that we have encountered have girlfriends, even on this campus but will still try and talk to other females. In regards to universities admitting less qualified males over qualified females is in my opinion not fair and not right. Like the article said, there are many women who are in college not to look for a husband but to get a degree and I think that if men apply themselves a bit more in college, maybe then we wouldn't have to result in admitting males to settle gap gender differences.
    Kristine Tume

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  29. I am not really aware of the women to men ratio at WIU just because I do not have to pay attention to it and am not on campus a whole lot. But as I sit here and think about it, it does seem like there are more women than men. Since I am not in the dating scene I don't really see how it effects relationships. I also do not think it is right at all to deny women into some colleges just to make it more equal. Like so many others have said, it should be about qualifications rather then keeping a 50-50 ratio. Men should just get more qualified.
    Caitlyn Parrish

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  30. When talking about western I dont see there is a huge comparison to men and women on campus. I could def see how there may be more women, but I dont think its to the point of the ratio's given in the article. I think that you would find it to be a greater issue at some other schools tho, because i have noticed that when at other colleges in illinois. So i do agree with the article saying that more women are found on college campus' than male, and I could def see how it could be an issue when trying to date when you dont have much of a variety of guy friends like you may have had in highschool.
    -Kelley Walsh

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  31. I think at WIU I see alot more women in class than men, however when i go out on the weekend i feel like there are alot more men that attend WIU. I feel if the ratio was bigger it would have more of an impact, but i think no matter what the ratio is that guys are still going to act how they want to. They want to get the college experience with hooking up and not getting into a committed relationship. I think there is a competition between women just because it is hard to find a guy who wants to be in a relationship. I do not think the ratio really matters and I do not think that less qualified men should get into a college to even out this ratio.

    Kimberly Matejka

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  32. -As a freshman, I really cannot decide what the ratio between men and women is on campus here. However, I do feel as though women might be a little more dominant in the population than men.
    -At any college, if the ratio favors women over men by a very large percentage then I believe the dating and hooking up will occur more and long-lasting relationships will not. I think that most college guys, at first, are just looking for sex. So if there are more women than guys, the result will be more one night stands than actual relationships.
    -I do not think admission officials should take into account what type of gender the person has. It should only be about the qualifications. If they refuse women just to get a balance of 50/50 then there is definitely a problem.

    -Megan Salvatori

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  33. I would have to say that the ratio between men and woman do effect the patterns of dating and hooks up. The more options that guys have to choose from increases the amount hook ups they have, because they have all the power over the relationship. So i do agree with that quote. Also i do not beleive in the 50 -50 balance in college between gender %. They should never deny anyone who is more academically qualified.

    Danielle Fabian

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  34. --I think that there are more women than men here at WIU. I can only estimate this from all of my classes that I go to. I truly think that it is very hard to guess the actual ratio.
    --If there are more women than men on a campus then there will be more hooking up and one-night stands. I believe that if there are less men, then they have more of a variety of women to choose from and will take advantage of it.
    --I think that the admission officials should not be able to turn down women just to keep their ratio 50/50. I think that it is just wrong to say no to a higher qualified woman to an underqualified man just to keep things even.

    --Michele Salvatori

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  35. -I think there are more women than men at most college campuses including WIU. I feel like there are more women in my classes but when I am out I feel like I see more men.
    -I do think that there being more women gives men more choices and variety about who they want to hook up with but regardless of if there are more men than women, men are going to still hook up with girls and have one night stands.
    -I do not think that admissions should turn down women in order to keep the ratio even. I do think they should keep the ratio close to each other, just nothing like 90 percent women and 10 percent men...it might as well be an all girls school if it was like that.

    Taylor Murphy

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  36. -I think that the ratio seems pretty even. Judging that from walking to class, being in class, and going out on weekends.
    -The pattern of more women to men effect the dating/hookin-up topic as it would aat any other school whether there are more women there are not. I feel that the majority of all women and men have the same mind set when you enter college. I don't think that there being more women really matter other than the fact that men would have more choices of women.
    -It would be wrong it deny women of admission just to keep the ratio even. If you are a better candidate for the spot than someone else, then you should be the one to receive it.

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  37. I was surprised when I heard about the girl to guy ratio in colleges these days. It’s unfortunate that some guys are not attending college because it is a recession and many other men don’t know what to do with their lives. Also a lot of men have family businesses and they don’t seem the need to have a college education. Coming from me I don’t mind that there are more girls than guys, since my closest friends are girls. I also have guy friends too but I’m closer to my friends that are girls. Hopefully the guy population picks up so it doesn’t seem like an all girl college.

    -Jason Renacido

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  38. I have ignorantly always thought that the male population outnumbers the female especially in tertiary institutions. However, with the current demographics in WIU and looking back at the city college I just transferred from, I have now realized that women are much more than men. Even though i agree that more men, give men the advantage in the campus dating field, I do not think that turning down females applicants and accepting more male students is the acceptable way to keep the ratio even.

    Sandra Odei

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  39. I do not think the outnumbering of females to males should affect who the college accepts. I also do not think the outnumbering of females to males is a huge problem. Here at Western, I have not seen the competition for males this article states is happening. I could be missing this, but I have not experienced it and I understand the fact that some people are simply just happy being single during their college years.

    -Laura Curtin

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  40. To me, i feel there is an equal amount of boy to girl ratio, but thats just me. I really do not feel like the women over populate Western campus. If there were more girls than guys, then yes the dating ratio and hooking up ratio will be low. More women would be left out with dates but that doesn't stop girls. A lot of people like to be single for some years to focus on school. However, I do not agree with colleges not accepting women because they have a higher amount of them at their college. If they are more academically qualified, they should be accepted.

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  41. I feel that the girl population at Western is slightly higher than the boy population, but it is not an imediate issue. When out at the bars, it is more typical to see multiple groups of girls than groups of guys. However, I don't agree with turning away qualified girls just to have the ratio be even. Yes, it is easier for guys to find a good girl than vice versa, but academics are what bring students to Western and qualified applicants should have an equal opportunity.
    -Keri Plica

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  42. There are definitely more girls here at WIU than there are boys. Its not extremely noticeable, but it can be seen. The guys like it because they can "play the field" and have more women to choose from. I dont agree with colleges turning away females from their school just so they can even out the ratio. If they have the grades to get into college, then they should be allowed, gender shouldnt play a part.

    Jackie Golevicz

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  43. I feel like there are a lot more girls on campus here at WIU. You can't really notice it unless your really paying attention. I do not agree to turning away females because in my opinion girls are more motivated than guys that is why there are so many women on campus.

    -Tara Rednour

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  44. Well, once again I had trouble with this site. I tried to do it from the road while we were in Minnesota for softball, and apparently it didn't go through. So here it goes. As far as the inequalities in men versus women ratios, its really not something that I feel is very noticeable. If I go to a party it seems to be that the numbers seem pretty equal. But then again I have a lot of guys and girls as friends so I guess I never really notice the difference. But statistics show that there are more women, which doesn't surprise me in the least because when I look at my female friends that went away to school, I see the first person or woman in the family to attend a four-year university. So many women are out there striding for better success and achievement then what was previously expected of them.

    Kelsey Michelini

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  45. Although in the article it states that women are making up 57 percent of the enrollment in colleges I think that is probably true here at Western Illinois University as well. If you got down to it and counted the men vs. women i think that statement would be pretty accurate but it doesn't stand out. Women are now striving for better education and I have noticed some men dropping out of college.

    Chance Hill

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